Sales Call Overhaul


ROI-Based Selling is LAZY Selling. How to Fix Your Broken Close Rate by DITCHING the ROI-Based Process

If your big selling point is to just get an “ROI” for your client, then you better stick around and listen to this. It’s a better way to frame your sales calls. (If you want a better long-term relationship with your clients that is.)

I just remembered a coaching call back in March with a young and hungry entrepreneur. Let’s call him Doug. Doug is doing about $200k/month in his business, and hitting a couple roadblocks.

Doug had JUST transitioned into a newer niche and was having problems with competition.

“People aren’t buying into the new offer as much. Before switching, we had one call closes constantly.

I want to be more profitable. I keep losing business to this other firm I think?

I thought my offer was really good, but something isn’t sticking..

I’ve got a few competitors who are doing it cheaper.

It must be the offer.. I want my offer to be such a no-brainer, that they don’t have to go somewhere else.”

Doug was obviously frustrated, and who can blame him?

If you’ve done consulting or coaching for any length of time, then you’ll know that business owners THINK they have the problem nailed down, but it’s something else entirely.

Doug came to me for help on his offer in the new niche, but after we dug into it, we found we have another problem altogether.

A SALES problem.

Typically, when I find someone is having a hard time holding their price with competition, it’s due to the lazy man’s way of ROI-based selling.

To most people, ROI selling makes sense right? (Example) “I’ll get you $10,000/mo in business for $5,000.”

Selling money is EASY. All you have to do is hold true to your end of the bargain, and make sure the prospect believes you.

This can cause a whole slew of problems though, and this is what Doug was seeing.

What about the prospect who was burned by other marketers?

What about the prospect who has a hard time believing in you/themselves?

What about the prospect who has mindset issues that may need to be dealt with before they can move forward and have real success with you?

These people won’t make it off the sales call with confidence, so they won’t buy or they’ll leave quickly after signing on.

For the people that you do end up having as clients, they will ALWAYS have a bad month or two at some point. When that happens, alarm bells go off in their heads.

If the client isn’t satisfied or doesn’t understand the right timeframe in mind for when results start coming in, then they hop to the next offer.

They bounce around like a pinball in the machine. They never get the help they need, and thus they’re DEFINITELY not growing with YOU.

This type of selling gets you KILLED on the backend, which is where the gold and excitement should be!

You might be thinking… “Okay okay… I get it, ROI-based selling sucks, so what do I do?”

I have a framework for this that I love to teach my clients called ‘The Triple Transparent Close.’

It gets to the root of the REAL problems your prospect is facing and hits on potential mindset issues they may have while on the call.

It gets them to buy into the idea of working with you BEFORE they actually work with you!

Usually, I save this stuff for my clients, but today I’m feeling extra generous.

So, I’ll share the second part of the frame with you today.I hope it really brings home the difference between lazy ROI-based selling and the selling you SHOULD be doing.

(I mean if you want to avoid all the problems Doug was facing.)

So here it is!

Return on Solution/Vision For The Future

You want to dig in deeper with your questions towards the beginning of the call. You want to find out what success looks like to the prospect.

What are they trying to get out of all this? Why is it important?

Next time you’re on a call with your prospect, try something like this. (This is called the Dan Sullivan Question.)

“You got on the phone with us today. Sometimes people get on the phone with us because they want leads, but I want to know a little bit more than that. Can you pretend with me for just a minute here?” (Wait for the answer.)

“Okay, let’s pretend it’s a year from now, and we are celebrating our WILD success together over a glass of champagne. What has to have happened in your life, both personally and professionally, for you to be 100% happy with the way things worked out?” (Pause)

Does this sound like ROI-based selling? Certainly not.

From here, you can get a real ’emotional buy-in’ from them over the phone. You can hear their real goals. You can spot potential mindset issues.

You can find out what it is they are expecting from you, and it opens the call up to be more educational about what it is you can REALLY do.

It brings the transparency in, opens them up to being taught from you, builds MASSIVE rapport, and associates positive feelings to working with you in one neat package.

This simple question is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Return on Solution based selling, and using this framework alone helped Doug have a massive shift that solved his ‘offer problem.’

I’m thinking about doing a training on the Triple Transparent Close, and opening it up to those of you I haven’t had as clients.

If you’re interested in improving your client LTV AND increasing your close rate at the same time, then let me know hereby saying one of these! X, Y, Z, ABC, Eureka

Chat soon,

-Jeremy ‘triple transparent’ Pope

Jeremy Pope

Hey! I'm Jeremy Pope. I'm a sales coach, mindset expert, and sales team consultant. I help business owners fix their 'accidentally high pressure', often-broken, and unfortunately-adversarial sales calls. The result is a close rate above 14.5%. Click here to get my guide "3 quick steps to dramatically improve your next sales call".

Stop Complimenting Your Prospects

Complimenting your prospect isn’t inherently the ‘wrong thing to do.’

It’s just wildly ineffective FOR MAKING SALES.

Here’s a time when complimenting this salesperson’s prospect worked against her, instead of helping her achieve his goal.

Storytime: She was on the phone with the prospect, and they were talking about the prospect’s offer.

The prospect said that he was looking to scale his business up, they just had a problem with consistent lead flow.

He went ahead and talked about how much he was selling his offer for, and that he had validated it at $10k for 90 days.

IMMEDIATELY the salesperson was gushing at this.

“I love that you took the time to learn how to validate your offer at a higher price. I usually talk to people who are stuck charging around the $3,500 mark for this kind of thing. I’m really glad you absorbed that knowledge because it’s going to pay off for you. I’m very impressed.”

She’s being nice and all, but she missed a HUGE opportunity to paint a picture of working together using the same language that HE used on the call. (She didn’t make the sale, of course. This dynamic played out twice more on the call and killed a lot of momentum.)

Here’s how that could have gone differently: “I like that you have a higher price point, that will give us some interesting marketing possibilities for SCALING if we work together.”

See the difference?

The first one was JUST compliments. It gave power to the prospect’s current situation, which isn’t ideal for him. He’s currently feeling a LITTLE of the pleasure of building, but he could have been fully IMMERSED in the vision of growth.

The second one takes that energy and focuses it at the future of working together. This statement also weaponizes an important word that the prospect used earlier in the call.

This prospect wanted to SCALE. So bonus points are awarded for talking about that desire and relating it to your offer.

Although both examples are compliments, the second one is by FAR more powerful.

It paints the picture of you being able to give him exactly what he wants. The sales person builds a lot of leverage with that SIMPLE frame shift.

Here’s the thing…Complimenting your prospect is FINE, but there’s often times no point in it.

Don’t get confused or let your sales team think that complimenting a prospect’s existing situation is going to help make the sale.

If anything, I’ve seen it do the opposite. Prospects get comfortable thinking they are on the right path, and your team could create an objection for themselves later down the road.

We are here to solve problems, not shower people with niceties.

You notice this happening to you or your team? Reach out, I could give you some advice on this sort of thing, or really anywhere you might be having constraints.

Buy me something on my amazon wishlist, and let’s get you on the calendar.

Jeremy Pope

Hey! I'm Jeremy Pope. I'm a sales coach, mindset expert, and sales team consultant. I help business owners fix their 'accidentally high pressure', often-broken, and unfortunately-adversarial sales calls. The result is a close rate above 14.5%. Click here to get my guide "3 quick steps to dramatically improve your next sales call".

How to Record Your Sales Calls

One of the best ways to improve your sales calls is to carefully listen to recordings of your calls (or have an expert do that for you). In this post, I’ll teach you how to record your sales calls and I’ll give you the top two software I would recommend using to record your sales calls.

Transcribing your call

Before we get into the software for recording sales calls, I would be doing you a disservice if I didn’t talk first about transcriptions.

Transcription software allows you to import audio, and it will put words to the audio that you imported automatically. They are VERY useful for improving what you say on future sales calls, but it doesn’t record important non-verbal aspects of your call. Transcriptions are great for taking notes on certain sections of your call, and these transcriptions of your call will give you additional insights. Trust me, you’re going to want to invest in one if you’re serious about improving your sales game.

My favorite one to use is You’ll definitely need something like what they offer. It’s inexpensive too. They have a good free package, and the paid plan is only $9/mo anyway.

How to record your call

There are TONS of different ways you could be recording your sales calls. I’ll go through my favorite ways.

PS. There ARE free options out there, but if you’re serious about quality – JUST GET SOMETHING THAT COSTS A SMALL MONTHLY FEE. I promise it’s worth it.


Zoom is used in pretty much all industries at this point. At least the ones that require some form of remote communication, that is. Using Zoom will more than likely be user-friendly for your prospects. They have a free plan, but I wouldn’t recommend using that for a sales call. If somehow you go over the time limit, it’ll kick both of you off. That’s not a professional look, so opt-in for the paid plan instead. It’s only $15/mo.

With Zoom’s basic paid plan you can record to the Zoom Cloud or to your computer’s hard drive. Recording to the cloud offers better quality, but that kind of quality isn’t necessary for your sales calls.

One thing that I will mention is that you can’t share directly from their cloud storage to your own online storage. You would need to pay for a connector in the Zoom marketplace or by using a connection software like Zapier. You, or someone you share access with, needs to download it to a computer before uploading it to another online storage system.

If you record the call locally, then you can upload it wherever you choose when the call is finished. For me, all my calls that are in my personal Zoom meeting room are automatically sent to Otter for transcription.

Here are other helpful recording features in Zoom:

  • Record all calls automatically.
  • Record the video in gallery view or just have the video show only who is currently speaking (‘speaker view’). Choose the first option so that your recording shows the body language reactions of the person who isn’t speaking.
  • There will be a separate audio recording as well as a video recording, so you can review just the audio if you prefer; you’ll hear how the words are delivered, so it’s better than just reviewing a transcription, but you won’t see body language on an audio recording.
  • Some plans will automatically transcribe meetings.

There are honestly too many reasons to use Zoom. I would definitely give them a shot as the main way you chat with your prospects online.

Dial Pad

My other favorite software to use is called Dial Pad.

It’s basically a business phone number that you can use anywhere. You can talk with people, message them, meet with your team, or any prospect as well. It’s got a nice unified workspace, and you can RECORD your calls as well.

All you have to do is press the record button on your call, an interactive voice response states that the call is being recorded, and it gives you the audio file after the call finishes. It neatly stores each recording inside of its own interface, so it’s easy to keep track of everything. If you need help, read their ‘record a call’ post on their website.

If you’re someone who enjoys more of a phone-to-phone approach, then Dial Pad is a great option. They have a free trial for 14 days, so you can give it a look to see if it will be a good fit for you. The paid plan is inexpensive though, just like Zoom and Otter. If you care about getting better at sales calls, then investing in something small like this is a no-brainer.

What to do with your sales call recording

Once you have a recording, it’s time to review it to see how you can improve your calls.

Sales Call Overhaul has a mission of helping business owners fix their ‘accidentally high pressure’, often-broken, and unfortunately-adversarial sales calls.

We’ve created a guide that helps salespeople start closing higher than the boring industry average of 14.5%. Click here to get our ‘3 quick steps to dramatically improve your next sales call’ guide.

If you’re at the point where you’re serious about investing in yourself to increase your close rate, then you should check out our Sales Call Overhaul service. We guarantee that our mindset and sales coaching will increase your close rate by at least 15%. If you don’t, we will cheerfully return your money.

When you’re ready to stop the high-pressure sales tactics – and increase your close rate by 15%, click here

Why your client retention is in the garbage, and how to increase your revenue 500% by fixing this common sales problem

Back in May, I was consulting with an agency owner/friend. 

Let’s call her Linda.

She originally contacted me because of a retention problem in her business.


“I’m FRUSTRATED Jeremy.. my client retention has been awful lately. People are leaving at random, they aren’t staying with us. It’s like we spend all this time/money to dig up a well, but they quit RIGHT BEFORE they actually hit the water. I’m chasing my own tail trying to figure out what’s wrong… I’m constantly going back to the drawing board, and I can’t gather from the data exactly why this keeps happening.”


After digging in some more, we discovered just how detrimental this problem was. It was causing her not only severe stress, but also lost relationships with bigger clients. Plus the client LTV along with them.


“If only I could get them results faster, they would stay. I have a great product, I know I do because I’m getting great results for others. But I’m not getting those that are leaving the results quick enough to stay..”


As we kept working through all the problems, it dawned on me that this wasn’t a client retention issue AT ALL.


This conundrum was actually a SALES problem.


Here is the exact problem she was having:


People were leaving because they were expecting something different than what was actually happening.


The sales cycle is longer in this industry, and the campaign getting dialed in takes more time. However, the clients frequently aren’t bought in to this frame, and proper expectations were not being established well enough on the sales call.


Here’s the thing that people often miss:


The “sale” doesn’t end when the client pays you at the end of the month or on the sales call. The sale ends when you get them the results you know you can give them with your expertise.


In Linda’s case, she knows the results she can deliver. However, because of the lack of proper expectations being laid out, and having a team member continue to sell to the client until the right results are achieved, this is causing confusion in the customer journey.


Of course when they are confused and not seeing results quick enough, it’s natural that they wouldn’t want to continue due to a lack of trust.


When you have a decent product, and decent fulfillment, people should not be leaving left and right randomly. This is a CLEAR sign that you have a sales problem.


A common one that was costing Linda 500% in both back and front-end revenue.


It’s imperative this problem GETS SOLVED.


So HOW do you solve the problem?


Typically there are three things you have to do to solve this problem.


  1.  Knowing your avatar really well. Sometimes a small shift in who your avatar is and who your product is for, will help you understand what it’s supposed to look/feel like when you’re working with them. A clear-eyed look here will help you spot potential ‘PITA’ clients, and you can disqualify them before they make you miserable. (If you need help refining this, let me know in the comments below.)
  2. Go HARD on setting realistic expectations on the sales call as to what you could do for them/what they are expecting. It’s not usually as simple as, “Hey it’s going to take approximately 2 months to get your campaign dialed in before you start seeing results. It’s different for every client we work with, but marketing does take time. You cool with that?” but 3-4 statements like this will go a LONG WAY.
  3. As you work with your clients, remember to keep USING that frame you built during the sales call. Helping them rebuild certainty frequently can be VITAL. Their certainty will be the driving influence to keep your client engaged until they start seeing results. (When you get them great results, it may be time for an upsell. After all, it feels great to level up WITH the people that you’re serving.)


Remember: If they have an upcoming payment, you have an upcoming sale to make. You aren’t done selling until you’ve worked with them all you plan to work with them, for the rest of your life.


If this is something that resonates with you, or is a problem you’re facing, drop a comment below to let me know if it was helpful.


As Linda mentioned, it’s really frustrating having an ‘undercover problem’ that seems to have no solution. Often times it takes an extra pair of eyes from the OUTSIDE to spot a problem INSIDE your business.


If you need an extra pair of eyes on an ‘unsolvable’ or confusing client retention issue, drop a comment here and message me. I often take time out of my schedule to spot these problems, and I love being able to point people in the right direction.


Talk soon!

Jeremy Pope

Hey! I'm Jeremy Pope. I'm a sales coach, mindset expert, and sales team consultant. I help business owners fix their 'accidentally high pressure', often-broken, and unfortunately-adversarial sales calls. The result is a close rate above 14.5%. Click here to get my guide "3 quick steps to dramatically improve your next sales call".